Hetq speaks with Artsakh Human Rights Defender Gegham Stepanyan.

How many civilian prisoners of war are there at the moment?

At least 15 civilians were identified during the ombudsman's fact-finding mission, mostly through videos collected from open sources. However, I must mention that there are also civilians who failed to leave the territories under the control of Azerbaijan. The number of those people is about 18. We cannot claim that they are captives, because from time-to-time, search operations uncover the bodies of civilian victims, which are confirmed by DNA research and are already included in the list of civilian victims. They are mainly the inhabitants of the villages of Hadrut and Askeran region.

During our fact-finding work, we identified 126 cases of prisoners of war through videos. To date, the Azerbaijani side has not confirmed the fact that those people were taken prisoner, only 72 people have been taken prisoner. Moreover, the list of 72 people includes both civilians and military.

How do you find out if people are being held captive or missing?

We are guided by the following principle. If there are videos in which a military or civilian person is seen, we consider him/her a prisoner. That is, he/she is included in our lists as a captive. We also include those people who are in captivity according to testimony of returned captives. in. All the cases when relatives have any information, as a result of this or that conversation or meetings with the servicemen, that the relatives may have been captured, we include those in the list of the so-called missing or possible captives.

According to your information, how many people are considered missing?

According to the latest update of the lists, we are talking about 400 people, but this only refers to the work we have done. This data should not be considered final.

What do the relatives of the missing or captives say about the conditions in which they disappeared?

The relatives' statements are quite contradictory. For example, a relative hears from someone that the last time he saw the person, that person was injured, but they could not help. Thee hear from another that he saw that the Azerbaijanis took their relative. There are contradictions However, as such, as there is no DNA data on the person to date and no evidence has been established as a result of the search. We are directly obliged to consider that person missing or possibly captured.

What was the last report of the Human Rights Defender that you presented to the international organizations you work with?

We are not preparing a report on the prisoners. We have prepared reports on civilian casualties, on injuries. Our third interim report is now being prepared, which, so to speak, should summarize the information we have gathered throughout the war. We are preparing lists of prisoners, which we provide to both the authorized bodies of Artsakh and the Russian peacekeeping forces.

What are the reactions to your reports?

Mainly due to the non-recognition of Artsakh, I must mention that the capabilities of the Artsakh Human Rights Defender are extremely limited. But it is clear that we are not satisfied with this.  We use our cooperation with the Human Rights Defender of Armenia, as well as Diaspora organizations. We use the Armenian Bar Association of America as a channel for sending our reports to various bodies. Unfortunately, we do not see a visible, tangible response to the reports from the international community. This should not discourage us. We must continue our work to present what happened in Artsakh.

Which structures do you mainly cooperate with?

We cooperate with the Human Rights Defender of the Republic of Armenia. We also cooperated with those responsible for the prisoners of the Defense Army in Artsakh. We also cooperated with a number of non-governmental organizations in the Republic of Armenia that also dealt with various European bodies on prisoners of war during and after the war, mainly in filing complaints with the European Court of Human Rights.

What would you say about the discussion of the issue of prisoners in PACE? What effect can it have?

First, I would like to note that the format in which such an important issue is discussed is not appropriate, because, as far as I know, no document will force those discussions to compel Azerbaijan to adhere to its international obligations, either directly or under certain conditions, to return the Armenian captives.

The fact that such a discussion has already started at the level of the most important European structure is welcomed, but I must say that I do not have any definite expectations about the discussions.

The issue will be raised, different opinions will be exchanged, but I think that stronger international pressure is needed for the settlement of that issue. They can be political or economic sanctions. We are faced with the fact that Azerbaijan is not fulfilling its obligations under international humanitarian law; the obligation to return the captives immediately.

Not only does Azerbaijan fail to do so, but also politically manipulates the issue, presenting the captives as terrorists. However, in international humanitarian law, these people cannot be considered terrorists. The Nagorno-Karabakh conflict is an ongoing conflict. In the case of an ongoing conflict, it does not matter whether the person was captured during the escalation phase or after the signing of the ceasefire. They have the same rights as prisoners of war or civilian captives. In my opinion, international pressure should be stronger, tangible and practical.