Last week,  Gayaneh Chalukian-Gavrilov and Yulker Unjo, representing the Istanbul-based “Sayat-Nova” Armenian song troupe and the Turkish “Kardes Turkuler” ensemble, paid a two day visit to Armenia. 

The two are preparing for a joint concert to take place in December in Yerevan’s Opera’ House as well as in the town of Vanadzor. The interview “Hetq” conducted with them included a discussion of the upcoming unprecedented joint Armenian-Turksih concert, their view on President Gul’s recent trip to Armenia and Armenian-Turkish relations in general.

Q - It’s safe to say that concert-goers in Armenia know little about your work. Please give us a brief introduction about the two ensembles.

Gayaneh Chalukian-Gavrilov - It has been 15 years now that the two ensembles, Sayat-Nova and “Kardes Turkuler” have been performing together on stage. “Sayat-Nova” has been around for 36 years and performs both Armenian national songs and stylizations. In 1996 we invited Hovhannes Badalyan to Istanbul to mark the 70th anniversary of Khachadur Avetisyan in concert. Mr. Avetisyan was ill and couldn’t make it so he sent his son, Mikayel Avetisyan, in his place. Even during those concerts one of the female singers from “Kardes Turkuler”, Ferial, performed with us. She even sang a duet with Badalyan and offered her interpretation of one of Avetisyan’s Armenian compositions.

“Kardes Turkuler” has been performing for 15 years. Back then some students from the Bogazic University got together around a project called “Kardes Turkuler” which translates as “Brother songs”, and made their debut. The group was named after the project itself. Given the many minorities that live in Anatolia, Greeks, Armenians, Macedonians, Gypsies, Kurds, they decided to perform the songs of all these peoples. These songs garnered a wide following and the ensemble’s activities also had an influence on Turkey’s politics. Today, “Kardes Turkuler” is widely popular in Turkey and in Europe. Our friendship began when they were looking for Armenian dongs to perform and asked us to help out. We offered them what we knew and soon after we found ourselves requesting Armenian songs from them. Our first joint concert was three years ago when we sat down and collaborated on material to perform. Sometimes their interpretations of Armenian songs are more popular than ours. That project was called, “A troubadour has come to our neighborhood”, and we performed songs of the bard. Why? Because we saw that Armenian, Turkish, Kurdish and Assyrian bards lived on those lands of Anatolia,  they all had similar feelings and sang about the same joys, troubles and loves. If we translate these various songs we come up with themes that are very alike. This is why we sang troubadour songs. It was a fabulous concert in a 5,000 seat open air venue. We had always thought about coming to Armenia to perform but it always remained a dream to ponder. Hrant Dink also attended that concert and he wrote in “Agos” that he would like to see the same concert performed in Armenia. Hrant has left us and today we want to transform this wish of his into reality. The least we can do is to accomplish this one vow of his. Today, we are working towards staging this concert in Yerevan in December. We wish to show that enmity is not a positive thing and that outstanding problems can be more quickly resolved through a sense of brotherhood.

How did the Turkish audience react to your first joint performance?

Yulker Unjo - Let me first say that they really enjoyed it. Secondly, our decision to perform troubadour songs was appropriate since art with an ethnic base is much more accessible. The reviews in the Turkish press were quite positive.

Weren’t you afraid the first time you performed the art of national minorities that you wouldn’t be so warmly received by the public especially given the existence of extreme nationalist attitudes?

Yulker Unjo - Even when we began this work in the university we had no idea about the reception we’d get. We expected more of a negative reaction from the school’s administration, but nothing of the kind happened. This is because they have a more liberal and open-minded attitude in the university and are receptive to such student initiatives. Our first concert outside the university walls took place on the premises of the Armenian Mkhitarist Congregation and the initiative was supported by the Armenian community. Our recent performances are generally organized by Turkish opposition circles. This was followed by our CD’s being issued and our following has grown as a result. Given present conditions, however, there are still cities and towns where we can’t perform. They haven’t been able to accuse of anything since we are quite independent and most importantly, our message is always one of peace.

What are the cities where you cannot perform?

Yulker Unjo - For instance, we’d love to go to Mersin or Trabizon but can’t simply because the local administration or provincial head will not agree to it. To avoid any incidents we don’t even attempt to go. The saddest thing for us is that we have two videos, the first in Kurdish-Turkish and the second purely in Kurdish. Many TV stations exercised self-censorship and  refused to air the second one.

But are you invited to appear on TV?

Yulker Unjo - During the past few years our major concerts in particular have been broadcast by various TV stations. Then too, we were invited to be interviewed by different stations on the occasion of our 15th anniversary. There’s one famous female singer who has her own show on the state TV station who invited us as guests and it was on her show that Armenian and Kurdish songs were heard for the first time on Turkish state TV.

Do you have any apprehensions regarding the reception you’ll get from an Armenian audience?

Yulker Unjo - I have absolutely none. If Armenians listen to Kurdish and Turkish songs they’ll see that they’re not so alien in terms of what they know. For example, my parents know nothing about Armenian culture but the first time they attended an Armenian concert they found the songs to be quite familiar and dear. I believe that the same sensation will occur in Armenia.

Do you believe that song can serve as a vehicle to normalize relations amongst peoples?

Yulker Unjo - I believe it to be quite true. Naturally,  it’s not the only vehicle. But given that song is a road that travels much closer to the heart I think it holds more potential than say mere politics.

Do you have any intention of inviting Abdullah Gul and Serzh Sargsyan to your concert?

Gayaneh Chalukian-Gavrilov - Yes we do but it is something that depends on the concert organizers, the Eurasia Foundation. Even though we’ve constantly tried to obtain the needed resources ourselves to organize this concert in Armenia, this time it was Amberin, the wife of Mr. Penington, the United States Charges d\'Affaires to Armenia that was the organizing force behind the project. (Amberin Zaman, the wife of the Ambassador is Turkish by birth - L.S.) Hasmik Boghosyan, the Armenian Minister of Culture is also sponsoring the event.

Yulker, what are your impressions of Armenia?

Yulker Unjo - Two days isn’t really enough time to form impressions but I’d like to say that Yerevan is a beautiful city. What’s impressive is the collective social life of the people here that’s quite evident in the parks and streets. Since setting foot here I”ve been saying that’s it’s tough to say who is a Turk and who is an Armenian, we are so alike. What is also noteworthy is the way statues are used to constantly remind the people of their art and history.

You were in Turkey during the football match between the Armenian and Turkish national teams. What was the mood in Turkey and what do you think about Gul’s visit to Armenia?

Yulker Unjo - We had wanted for Gul to go to Armenia. It was a step that was quicker to accomplish than any diplomatic move and it needs to be appreciated. We were more interested to see how the people here would react. We were constantly on the phone with our Turkish acquaintances who traveled to Armenia to see how they were being greeted and welcomed by the people here. It was a small but very important first step.

What expectations does the Armenian community in Turkey have from the Gul-Sargsyan meeting?

Gayaneh Chalukian-Gavrilov - The Armenian community doesn’t share a unified opinion on the issue so it’s difficult to say anything in absolute terms. I am one of those who values the step but first we must appreciate te step taken by Serzh Sargsyan. These two peoples must agree to some sort of accommodation without forgetting anything of course. Isn’t it true that you can resolve even the thorniest problems quicker with your brother than with the enemy.

What message would you like to convey to those coming to your concert in December?

Yulker Unjo - The most important thing is that our message should be understood by the common people. Our mission isn’t just to perform, return home and sleep peacefully. This musical project is the result of the many years of friendship shared by the “Sayat-Nova” and “Kardes Turkuler” ensembles.