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My Artsakh Experience: Talking War with a Woman from Shushi

By Katherine Berjikian

I recently went on a four-day trip to Nagorno-Karabakh, the area between Armenia and Azerbaijan with a majority Armenian population, and which recently saw an escalation of violence on their disputed boarder with Azerbaijan.

While I was there, I was shocked about how almost everyone I spoke with wanted to talk about the recent four day war, and how they felt about the possibility of an even longer and more violent war with Azerbaijan.

One of the most memorable experiences while I was there was a conversation a group of friends and I had with a family that invited us into their home in Stepanakertfor a couple drinks. While we were drinking with them, one of the men in the family told us a story of when he fought in the Nagorno-Karabakh war in the 90s. He stated that when he fought he and his fellow soldiers spoke to the Azeri troops and decided that they shouldn’t be fighting, that the war was just a political game and that neither of them wanted to die. After they spoke they decided to stop fighting and called for a ceasefire.

At the end of the conversation he made a toast. He said that he wanted to pray for not only the safety of the children in Armenia and Nagorno-Karabakh, but also to the children in Azerbaijan. That he hoped that there would be no more war, and that they would be safe and live long lives as well.

I did not expect to hear that in Nagorno-Karabakh.

While I was in Nagorno-Karabakh, I stayed in a town named Shushi, a town a short distance from Stepanakert,Nagorno-Karabakh’s capital.  I stayed with a woman named Valia Avagyan. She was born and raised in Shushi, and had spent much of her adult life there.

I stayed with her for four days. This was set up by a program I am part with called Tebi Hayk, or Birthright Armenia. For several years, a couple time a year, Valia opens her doors to Diasporian Armenians from around the world as they visit Nagorno-Karabakh.

While I stayed with her, we spoke for several hours and way into to the night and early morning about the wars in the 90s, the recent four day war, Azerbaijan, Nagorno-Karabakh, and her son, an eighteen year old soldier on the front lines.

The following article is a summary of that conversation

Her thoughts about the war and the recent escalation of violence is hers alone. I do not know if they are unique compared to other inhabitants of Nagorno-Karabakh, or Shushi. However, I do know that while we spoke she seemed passionate and determined about the conflict. After mentioning that I worked for Hetq.am and would like to do an interview with her, she insisted that we do it almost immediately. It was almost midnight when I mentioned that I would like to do an interview.

Before I start, I would like to state that I am not fluent in Armenian, and much of this conversation was translated by Meli Masmainian and later transcribed by Nirva Karen Aydin.

Memories from the First War

Valiawas not in Nagorno-Karabakh during the first war in the 90s. In the beginning of the war, she and her children went to Georgia for her and their safety. However, she did this by herself. Her husband and his family and friends volunteered to fight in Nagorno-Karabakh once they saw that the violence was escalating and wouldn’t stop any time soon.

Because of this, she experienced the war in the 90s from afar. However, she did glimpse one moment of war that has stuck with her to this day.

Valia didn’t return to Nagorno-Karabakh until August 1993. At this point most of the war was slowing down. Because of this, and several years spent in the safety of Georgia, she was unaware of the potential danger of war in Nagorno-Karabakh. In August, shortly after her return, she decided to walk from Sushi to Stepanakert with her children.

(Sushi and Stepanakert are very close. Shushioverlooks Stepanakert. During the height of the war, Azerbaijani troops heldShushiand bombed Stepanakert from above.)

When she was walking down this hill with her children, she noticed a plane flying low to ground approaching them. When she saw this she was more distracted by it then anything else. However, when it got closer she noticed that a lot of people around her were afraid of the plane and were started running into caves near the road almost immediately after seeing it.

A man ran up to her when he noticed that she was not running for cover with her children. He yelled at her and demanded that she give him her children so he can take them into the caves. She was shocked and let him take them.

(During the 90s, a plane flying close to the ground inNagorno-Karabakh could have meant the possibility of an airstrike.

At this point in the story, she jumped from this moment to a confrontation she had with her husband shortly after the incident. She did not tell me if there was an airstrike or not.)

When she got home with her children she quickly told this story to her husband. Her husband had been in Nagorno-Karabakh the whole time, and new what a plane flying close to the ground would mean.

He told her that it wasn’t safe to walk outside for long periods of time, especially with the children. She stated that she did not know what had happened, and she said he then explained that they were at war still, and it was not safe.

She then described an incident that happened near the end of the first war. At the end of the war, several tanks rolled into Sushi when she saw this she became afraid. She thought that they belonged to Azerbaijan and that they were going to try to recapture Shushi. According to her, the other inhabitants of the town thought the same thing and started to panic.  However, they then noticed that the tanks weren’t shooting, and that the men on them were speaking Armenian. They were Armenian tanks, not Azeri tanks.

That was the turn of the war.

Whose fault is it?

When she spoke of the recent escalation of violence and the four day war in Nagorno-Karabakh. She stated that this war is different because is a maneuvering war. When the Armenian military moves their troops, the Azeri population moves theirsaway from the border.

However, this does not mean that she was not afraid of this escalation of violence. During our conversation, she made a point to state that she was afraid because of how she sees the Azeri soldiers now.

While we spoke she mentioned a photo that Hetq.am published during the beginning of the war. This photo she mentioned was taken of a couple who had been killed by Azeri troops during the fighting. They were elderly and after they were killed the Azeri troops cut off their ears. She stated that if the Azeri’s want to go someplace, they don’t just move around a village that might be in its way, they go through it and kill everyone inside it.

However, she also seemed to have sympathy for the Azeri troops, similarly to how the man who toasted to for the safety of the children in Azerbaijan.

Later during our conversation she stated the following: “Azeri’s - they have so many minority groups in their country. Their schools are in bad shape, nothing gets done to help the minorities in Azerbaijan. The government is basically performing a small genocide towards their minority groups. The government has two goals, one to take Karabakh, and two to get rid of the minorities of their country. They're sending the young eighteen to nineteen year old members of these minority groups to the front lines …. Basically to die.”

Valiadid not stop at criticizing the Azeri government. After this statement, she then made another comment.

I am not sure if she it was directed at the Armenian government, the government of Nagorno-Karabakh, or both.

“They're building churches, this country is filled with churches, we need to focus on strengthening our borders. Creating jobs for our people, and having the best Armenians work these jobs. We have many riches: textiles, metal work, gold, grains, we have it all but no one uses these riches for themselves. They're exporting these things, where are they sending them? We need these things here, let's think about ourselves. But the four day war showed one thing. We are all equal, there is no rich or poor here. Armenians, Karabakh, we have many things here that we should use for ourselves but from above they're not allowing it. Our money goes to them, we get poorer, and they get richer. Why? Why not let your people benefit from these things?”

The Soldiers on the Front Lines

When I asked Valia about the soldiers on the front I thought she would mention her son first and how she felt with him fighting in the war. However, she first spoke about the soldiers in general, not just her son. She stated that this past war so many young boys went to the boarder to fights. She made a point to mention that they were so little, most of which were around eighteen, seventeen. She was concerned about them because they were so young and that this was their first war. She mentioned that they did not even know how to use their weapons.

While we spoke, she recounted a story she heard of a young boy she knows who went to the front. When he went there, he heard a noise near him and became scared. He accidently fired his weapon and shot and killed an Azeri soldier. While this probably saved his life, it really troubled him because as she stated, it was just an accident. He didn’t really know what he was doing.

Her son, who is eighteen, is currently at the border. One of the problems she states, is that information travels slowly from the boarder to the civilians in Shushi. Because of this, she stated, they listen rumors more than facts, and this makes her afraid, because the rumors she hears talk about military movement and the high possibility that this will be much more than an isolated incident. It takes a week to here news about the soldiers and the people that they know.

Valiatalks to her son almost every day. However, it is usually for fifteen minutes.

When asked to describe the conversation, she gave a comical example to describe the conversations she usually have with him.

Valia: Hi, how are you?

Son: Fine?

Valia: How is the weather? How is the sky?

Son: Oh, it’s blue.

Valia: No, it’s not blue.

Son: Ah, you’re right, it’s not blue.

She than stated that he says ‘Everything will be good’ at the end of each conversation.

She gave his anecdote to point out that the information she gets is not accurate, she does not know what exactly is happening to her son on the boarder.

The only thing she does know for sure is that he is friendly with the other soldier. She knows this because when she asked how the other soldiers are treating him. He stated ‘Fine.’

One of the reasons she does not know much information is because she is afraid that the phone wire might be tapped. That if she finds out where her son is stationed, it might inform the Azeri soldiers where her son is, and he could get hurt or killed.

Communication with her son is fright with fear that she or he might let something slip, and that might cause her son’s death. She stated that they are told to act this way, to not let information out.

Even though this must be hard on any parent, she does not seem like she is bitter about it. When I asked her how she feels about it, she stated that of course she is sad about it, but that she is happy that he is there.

This surprised me.

She stated that her son wasn’t safe. He wouldn’t have been safe at home if there weren’t boys at the border protecting it, and he’s not going to be safe if he goes there.

Last thoughts

After speaking about her son, I decided to end the interview and go to bed. However, Valiastopped me and made a point to say the following statement before I turned off the tape recorder and left.

“We are tired of this war, how much longer is this going to go on? Our young 18-19 year old boys, standing on the front lines are the ones getting hurt and killed for this, until when?...This conflict has to be settled for good. We are either going to continue to be broken down, or we're going to take care of them once and for all. They're either going to continue to sit comfortably in their homes, or they are going to be one with the ground. We will be the winners, and they will be the ones crying. This time Azeri’s will be the one at Putin's feet begging for help. But the people of Karabakh will not listen, no Karabakh resident standing on the front line will listen to the orders coming from above. All of them are volunteers, coming at their own will. They will stand strong until the very end. The Azeris are claiming that after they 4 day war they were able to obtain 2 posts - so much land. What did you get? You got 200 meters of land. For that small amount of land they (Azeri’s) lost 2,000 lives, they have tons of injuries. A doctor of their hospital is saying they don't understand what type of weapons Armenians are using. 40-45% of their injuries are very critical.”

Top photo: Valia Avagyan

(Katherine Berjikian is a Birthright Armenia volunteer from the U.S. now working at Hetq)

Comments (1)

Torkom
Well done...Finally, some interesting conversations from Artsakh!

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